Episode 81 Creating the Holidays YOU WANT for your Family with Mandy Hoffman (Part 1)

The holidays can be a really hard time with all the extra pressure of “gettign it right.” In this weeks episodes, my dear friend Mandy and I sat down to talk, going minimal, deepening connection and only doing what you truly want for you and your family this holiday season! 

Listen is as we talk ups and downs on our own journeys and how we landed where we are. 

And as two ADHD moms we are talking neurodivergence, over stimulation and strategies for managing both for ourselves and our ND kids!! 

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Transcript

0:00

Hey there and welcome back to the peaceful home podcast. My name is Pam and I am your host. And today. I have a real treat for you actually for the next two episodes. I have a guest, a wonderful friend of mine named man Mandy Hoffman. And Mandy is a coach. She's a flight attendant. And she's a mom. And. Mandy is who has inspired me in so many ways around things like minimalism. And she's another ADHD mom who is just out here trying to do her best. And so for the next two episodes, we are going to share with you different ways that you can embrace new holiday traditions. And make your holidays and your every days, extra special for you and the people in your life. So let's dive in.

Pamela: 1:48

A couple of weeks ago on the podcast, I released an episode on shifting the holiday gift giving or from things or more things, cause our kids have so many things to. experiences. And you inspired me on that because that's like your jam. You're like and I think years ago like when your kids were very little, you were like, I want to do, I, I'm minimalist. I don't want to have all these things. And you and a couple of other moms. And I know I was like, I'm just going to start doing experiences. So of course, me being me, I did we do things like, let's go for a 14 day trip to California but that's unrealistic to do all the time. So I started dialing it back in going, okay what kind of things can we do? Let's where does that come from for you? Like where, what was your kind of driving force around shifting into more experiences?

Mandy: 2:35

I love that you are going way back to me diving into minimalism. Really the desperate. reach. It was almost like, being in an abyss and like reaching out just to survive that reach for minimalism just came from a constant state of overwhelm and not understanding where that overwhelm was coming from, what was feeding it. It was just, I need a solution now. And this looks pretty darn good. And so yeah, that actually, it's funny. I'm having an aha moment now. Yeah, a lot of it did start with. Me seeking out minimalism as a lifestyle, as, not just, home and family, but also like internally too, getting rid of the excess. yeAh, I really, I wanted deeper meaning. I didn't, I wanted less superficial, I wanted more connection, I wanted the experiences. To inspire connection. I wanted the experiences to just create these like fun, organic when something like randomly funny happens and then that just evolves into a family tradition, like just trying to not be structured or set up, but just create the space for these fun things to unravel and to shape our family. So yeah, so seeking minimalism really was a desire to Grow as a family and create traditions as a new family.

Pamela: 3:57

Yeah. And it sounds like you're also saying that minimalism was like, when we do this we do this with I have these things going on and I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling overstimulated. I'm feeling stressed by my environment. I'm feeling stressed by the people in my life. And so we try to, with our 3d understanding of the world, ourselves are like physical beings. We try to like find solutions. And it sounds and honestly sounds like minimalism or your being drawn to minimalism came from that place of like, how do I just calm shit down a bit? What do I do to make the inside feel a little calmer?

Mandy: 4:30

I was, it was okay. Everything is too much. Oh, less must be the solution. Yeah.

Pamela: 4:37

Yeah. I love that. I think it's so relatable is like we just seek out, we. We live in a world of opposites, right? So we're like, I'm experiencing too much. That's a great phrasing for it. I'm experiencing too much. And so what's the opposite of too much? Less, too little, less, not a lot of things. Which yeah. And what's interesting. And then you've got like social media that you start seeing, you find the language and you go, Oh, this is what I want to look at. This is what I want to be. This is what I want to be And then on top of that, I think there's a real. A lot of us moms, a lot of us, grew up in the eighties and early nineties or whatever moms are like reeling from the fact that our parents like no shade to all the older generations out there listening, but that our parents just really fucked up on trying on meeting our emotional needs.

Mandy: 5:34

And in coming from an observational space and not a judgment space. of that because they were a product of their environment, they were a product of their socialization. It's funny, I went for a walk with a friend this morning, and that's exactly what we talked about. And her bias is around she has, multiple degrees in genealogy and history and tracing families, and really her brain goes there, and we're going back to what is it that set it up? We're talking about, World War I and II shaping a generation, and then how that shaped their offspring. And we talk about these, social historical events, how they shape, us. And yes, access was love in the 80s. The, the Cabbage Patch dolls. Remember the Christmas run for that and it was like my mother

Pamela: 6:22

standing stood in line at Kmart for I don't know how long,

Mandy: 6:26

but here they were. Metaphorically, maybe even physically bruised and batter trying to give their all give their best to us. And then we grow up and say, nah, that doesn't mean anything to me. I just want experiences. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them too. Like I get the disconnect. However, you and I. Are still in a place where we need to sit with it, acknowledge the present and decide how we want to proceed forward with our own families,

Pamela: 6:54

right? And I think that's the push where I'm hearing from a lot of families where this idea of coming together in whatever form that looks like and whatever works for you and your family is a priority. AnD then making the carving out the time in our busy schedules, because we all have busy schedules, um, and carving out and finding the space and using it intentionally. And that's, of course, what I teach, is using, how do you take the time you have and use it intentionally. But the, that wasn't, that didn't happen in my growing up and I'm the youngest, like I'm a family of four, there's four of us and I'm the youngest. And so we have an 11 year age spread. I Was like born in 76, but I have siblings that were born in 65. So there's a lot that goes on in that timeframe and last child and I'm sure other people that are like, last in the row, a bunch of kids can relate to. I just raised myself. My mother does not agree with that statement, by the way. So mom, if you're listening, I know that you don't agree, you don't even need to tell me. She's you did not raise yourself. I'm like, well. I kind of did, but it was just

Mandy: 8:03

those words mean different things to different generations too. Yes. Which I think is where that misunderstanding

Pamela: 8:09

lies. Absolutely. Absolutely. So speaking of generations and this shift in minimalism and our parents need to fill our physical space with things instead of filling our soul with. Time and connection. How have you, what are your suggestions? How do you get grandparents older generations, even like my siblings are not, they're like, no, I'm going to buy her a gift. I'm like, okay. What is your take on like, how have you worked to get people to respect the boundary of Hey, obviously you're not like, no, my kids can have presents, but. What does that process been like for you? Ongoing.

Mandy: 8:44

We'll see if anybody's We continue to evolve. For anybody who's going through this, if, you, if Pam and I are the first people to bring this up, if we're the first people to ever acknowledge this and you're like, oh my gosh, other people feel this way too. I first and foremost, so many other parents feel this way. If you open up a discussion with other people, it might not be the first or second people, but I'm telling you, there is such a large pool of people right now struggling with this. If anything, the wave is continuing to grow of people, coming across this as, a challenge, unsure of how to, proceed forward. We normal. First of all, for me, it's been a lot of I'm very lucky to have a group of moms that I can speak openly and vulnerably with and to bounce ideas off. It's nice to pull from other families that are like minded, but are also are nuanced and difference because we all have different needs and take that and create like my hybrid best and then try it out every year. So for any parents who are looking at giving a little pushback about creating their own family traditions that will look different than what they were raised with. I think the hardest part is that I've discovered. Is, I always wanted to be gentle, I always wanted to be mindful, I always wanted to compromise. I want a little of this, you want a little of that, let's see if we can find something, that, that gives to both of us. Hindsight of, it's been almost a decade now of attempting this. There may come a point where they just might not understand. And you didn't do anything wrong, if you continue to try to explain, you didn't do any you were not asking too much. Ah! See? I have my mantra! Right here with my candle and it said, you were never difficult, your needs were just unmet. To try to really, it might be met with curiosity, your requests, it might be met with a lot of taking it personally, offense so as you navigate that, just remember, you're not difficult that you've asked. And that it's okay to ask for something that's meaningful for you. And it's okay to say, I'm doing my best to compromise. However, I really need this. This is something of such high value and importance to me. And foundational to my family. I need this. And

Pamela: 11:08

that can be difficult. Yeah. One of the things that I like to talk about all the time with this topic is we have all these, there's all these like layers of stories, right? So you've got to use my own family as an example, I've got like my parents and I've got like my siblings and I've got me and my husband and his family of origin and what happens there, what the, those things look like. And so we started having these conversations and we start communicating, Hey, this is what we're looking to create more of. And we definitely get pushback as well. And I have many times throughout my daughter's 14 years, almost 15 years on this planet. We have graciously received the gift and graciously donated it, right? Just because somebody gives you something doesn't mean you have to keep it. And so sometimes that, that becomes the compromise, right? You've said to somebody like, Hey, this is my limit. I don't want you buying my kid all these things or spending all these things. And then the work becomes teaching your kids how to be. Giving and compassionate and understanding that like, we've, since Marley was, I don't even know, old enough to clean out her closet. She's always gone through all of her stuff before Christmas and we don't go through her stuff before Christmas to make space for the more stuff she's going to get. We go through her stuff before Christmas because there are other kids out there that. Are not going to get a whole lot of new things. And wouldn't they love to have Marley's 3 billion Legos? Whatever. Cause she always asks still at 14, she's got, she's like making the list of the Legos she wants. I'm like, of course they're like 300, 500 Lego sets now, but that's neither here nor there. But being able to it becomes an opportunity to teach your kids about giving and about receiving with graciously, even if you're like, Yeah, I'm never going to wear that or I'm never gonna we had a couple Christmases ago where she had a family member, I had a family member that like bought her a bunch of stuff. And Marley was just like, thank you. And the person left and she was like, do they have any idea who I am? I'm like, no.

Mandy: 13:05

So it's funny you say that's a huge trigger for me over the holidays. is, it's not the expectation that you need to get me the perfect present. It's when you are so off base, it's that speaks volumes. And for me, unraveling that story and saying, okay it's, honestly, there's a lot of denial. There's a lot of denial, at least that I went through for that. And then like sitting in the honesty of that situation, saying, Okay words don't tell you who people are. Actions tell you who people are. And sitting with their actions. And then watching my kids go through that. Receiving gifts. And I'm like, You like that. I'm like my kid doesn't like that. And being hurt and having to understand like the layers of the onion, understand the stories, understanding all of that. I think that for a lot of people, they're like, why are the holidays so stressful? The holidays. Bring up. It's like we're not wrapping gift baskets for teachers or for anything else. We're wrapping up your trauma and triggers and we're like, here you go. Let's have them all at once. That is what the holidays are. Yes. And that's hard for a lot of people. And I think a lot of that is around gift giving. So when a lot of us put boundaries in place around gift giving, it's almost reframing and reclaiming the holidays. It's giving you, it's not about the gift giving, it's giving how you want to feel. It's giving, it's that, we call experiences and I almost want to stop using experiences because I feel like I got misinterpreted so drastically. The end result was not what I had hoped for. The end result I was hoping for was to get to know somebody to then understand what experiences. And you hit it on the head where it's we're not cleaning out the house to fill it with more crap. We want for our family, this to be a season of reflection and how we can give to others. In what ways we're able to give, and we all give differently, and I think the better we understand ourselves, the better we can understand how we can sustainably give. How you give and how I give are different, but neither one is better or worse. How wonderful if the season is about, last year, you know what, I got really burnt out when I did this, and this. I'm like, I'm going to try to give this way this year. Maybe this is a better fit for me for how I give. And so that's really shaped a lot of how we're trying to create our own traditions. And I think a lot of people feel the same way.

Pamela: 15:35

Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of people do feel the same way. And I love the idea of I was reading an article, because I'm always reading articles. Yes, you are. And this therapist was talking about how her focus this year was around the holidays and parenting. Her focus this year was around Not asking her kids, and her kids are young, so shaping this early, but you can shape it later too we, I started doing this with Marley not asking her kids what she wants for Christmas, what they want for Christmas, but asking them what they want to contribute, what they want to give, what they want to offer, how they want to show up for people so just reframing this idea of like, This is about building connections, right? We give gifts based on building connections, not out of obligation. I am like, and anybody that knows me knows when somebody says you have to do this thing and it goes right down to like teachers because it's expected and I don't thank you teachers for doing what you do. You're amazing because I don't want to be in a classroom with all those kids. So I'm glad that you're willing to, and I don't like to be. I don't like it. I don't like to be told that this is what you need to do and this is how you need to do it. Because I give from a, I give from, I know what my giving is. Like I know where my giving comes from. I know what works for me. And I'm like, don't tell me to do something that doesn't work for me. I'm not doing it.

Mandy: 16:51

But you've had the chance to practice and make mistakes and reflect and try again. And Why not? To me, it's like, why wouldn't you make the holidays centered around that? What a perfect time of year. But meanwhile, you might be met with discussions with other people around you, other people in your family, that when you say there's a difference between clearing the house out to make more room for toys, and clearing it out so you can give it to somebody else, they might say, what's the difference? And unfortunately, I've made the mistake to try to over explain. I thought the burden of comprehension was on me. And I've carried that burden like a backpack full of rocks for too

Pamela: 17:28

long. Yeah. Yeah, and of course you know this from me. My, my response to that is It's not my job to explain that to you. If you don't get it, that's okay. And there's no judgment from me on that. If you don't get, if you truly are like, I don't understand the difference, that's fine. It's not my job to teach it to you. And maybe if you want to know the difference, you will figure it out. You will find the resources to figure it out. Or you'll come to me and seek information and I'm happy to, I'm always happy when it's requested to help, right?

Mandy: 17:59

But you know saying that I don't understand and I'm gonna do whatever the heck I want. Anyway, it's

Pamela: 18:04

Yeah, it's like a kid

Mandy: 18:05

being like my legs don't work I can't get dressed and it's you know when I hear that response sometimes I'm like I do I feel like my kids three again and it's like I'm able to get dressed and it's just like You're an adult!

Pamela: 18:17

Why should I have to parent, or teach, or direct you? And I love the idea, I love the notion of just being like, of just shifting, so, sometimes I teach shift little things. I love the idea of just taking the holidays, and flipping it completely on its head, and be like, this year, Even though we got the Amazon look book and the Target toy book and the blah, blah, blah, all the things that come in the mail, right? Catalogs from places that

Mandy: 18:42

I've never even heard of? Do you know what my husband and I call those books? We call them the dopamine books.

Pamela: 18:47

They are. That's exactly what they are. And now, in the Amazon one, there's a QR code on every page.

Mandy: 18:53

and stick. So all you have to do is stick and activities in'em and all. Yeah, that goes in the trash as soon as I see it.

Pamela: 18:58

It's entertaining for me. But my kid's 14 and we, here's the other thing that's really interesting is that we never had TV in Marley's life. And we have Netflix and those things now in Hulu. And there's some things that we watch that have commercials because we have the commercial version, but that wasn't a thing when she was little. If you had a streaming service, there was no commercials on it. It's just how these platforms are now like leveling their services and making more money, which is fine. So she never watched commercials. We never listened to the radio. She didn't hear commercials. She didn't even know, like, we'd, there were kids I'm asking, like, when she was little, when she was like five, six, seven years old, and I'd be like, what do you want for Christmas? She had no idea because she didn't even know what, she didn't even know what her options were. And I think there's a, I think there's a piece of we've just, and part of it is my values, like consumerism is not a value for me. Like having more things is not something that I'm interested in. This is definitely something I grew up with. And this is part of being the youngest. My family definitely, by the time I came along, my parents had more financial resources. I had guest jeans or, and then I worked at the Gap and I had the material goods, but I didn't have as much time with my parents because they were both working. None of my siblings were home. They had all left the house by the time I was like, old enough to be connecting with people. And so what I've always sought my entire life is connection. And I have older siblings that are like the physical, like having more money and keeping up with the Joneses and all of this stuff is really important because it didn't have as much of that. So we have these stories that get constructed as a result of our experiences. And so mine has never been around consumerism. So I've never even, I never even considered it an issue. Or even thought about it as Oh my God, my kids don't, my kid doesn't know what she wants until, I want to say she was in second grade and the teacher asked what are what are you, what's on your wishlist for Christmas? And she was like, Legos. And she was like, what kind of Legos? And she's I don't know. Are there any other toys? And she's not that I can think of. And these kids, other kids in the class had 47 things on their list. And the teacher said to me, I don't understand this. And I was like, I don't know. It's spending time together and doing things together is really important. So what tends to be on her list are Legos that we can build together, board games that we can play together. Oh my God. Puzzles

Mandy: 21:12

is our new jam, our whole family. And we just sit together and, when we hands up and we celebrate when we finally find that one tricky piece. And we, and we stumbled on that last year, a good friend gave me her puzzle and we left it out for the whole week. And I'm like, we're doing this every year. We found so much joy, and it was nice, too, to spend time together, sometimes in silence. Yes. Because that reset and then I noticed afterwards, we were better able to be present and whatever the next activity was, it was just and so every year we're doing a, minimum thousand piece puzzle, like that really worked for our family and then it was nice my youngest is six, we're still doing sitting in the lap and it's I want you. You know how you take pictures with your brain I, I still you pause and you breathe in their hair, you do all the things, and whatever, and it's like her acting like a feral animal ripping through paper that all I see is trash in the ocean at this disposable paper that's not the Christmas I want to feel. I don't feel good with that tradition, but that puzzle tradition like just, you can even look at me like reliving it in my head. I'm like, yeah, that's what I want for Christmas. And it's hard to communicate it to other people sometimes. Yeah. Or it's hard to be understood and finding the accepting acceptance that the people around you may never understand maybe just within your you know immediate family unit if you all get it you know what i mean you might be a single parent you might be you know non traditionally raising kids you might have foster kids i mean there's so many crazy family dynamics and even within your direct family unit you may still be having conflict or there may still be You know, you're a parent that maybe, you co parented with somebody who did a lot of consumerism and now you're separated and now you want to reclaim your Christmas while the kids had, a certain set of Christmases and now here you are shifting, it's going to have to be slow, it's going to have to be gradual, it's not going to be like flipping a switch taking that step back to and you've taught us this, I don't even know when, but at some point, about almost like you have to write down your strengths, Because you forget them like it's so we this stinks and I hate this and all we're still doing that. Oh, I'm so sick of it. But when you take a step back and like you like dismantle that like subconscious mind and you get into that rational thought and you're like, No, I remember dividing the puzzle this year and it's on the table. And everybody's already looking at it saying can we start organizing it as a time you know we did really good last year I can't wait to do it this year like you won, even if it's just one thing you won and you got to sit with each one of those

Pamela: 24:00

wins. Yeah, for sure. And I love the idea of like simple things like puzzles and board games and things that you can come together where there's a purpose. Cards. Where there's a purpose. But because I think sometimes what happens is we're like, yeah, I want to spend time together, but then I don't know what to do, because I don't know how to talk to my kid, or I don't know how to get them to talk to me, right? If you've got a kid that's in those middle ages and you're like, they used to talk all the time, but now they don't talk and I don't know what to, I don't know how to get them to talk. That having something that you can focus on. And be together because there's a neurological benefit to sitting at the table together and building a puzzle or playing a board game or playing cards or doing something or like gingerbread houses or whatever other thing is your family tradition. Like those can all be very special things that are, this, that we lump under this category of experiences. I know I talked about taking trips to California for two weeks and we did that one year. And I was like, wow, that was. That was a lot. That was extra over the top. Pam, what are you thinking? But like some of our favorite, we need

Mandy: 25:05

to let that pendulum swing.

Pamela: 25:08

Yeah. And some of our favorite experiences and our favorite traditions are like in Marley there, she doesn't get rigid on a lot of things these days, but she gets rigid on this. What do we do? My mom's flying in my mom's in. Is going to be in Florida at my sister's and she's flying in on Christmas Eve into Boston. And I was like, I'll come pick you up. You can come stay with us. Cause she's not gonna have a car. She's like taking the bus or my brother's bringing her to the airport and something. I was like, I can come pick you up. And then she tells me she's flying in at like 540 PM. And I was like, that's fine. It's not a big deal. And Marley's okay. But on Christmas Eve, we watch the Polar Express, we open our pajamas, and we drink hot chocolate. And we do it together as a family with no, no distractions. This is how it goes. We snuggle under blankets. This is what it is. And I was like, we can still do that. You're almost 15. You don't have to watch the Polar Express at four o'clock in the afternoon. You can, we can watch it whenever. And she's a new year's is the same. Somebody said to me what are your, what do you guys do on New Year's Eve? And I'm like, Marley, what do we do on New Year's Eve? And she's we play board games and it's non negotiable and anyone is welcome. So if you're listening and you're like, I got no plans for New Year's Eve, come to my house and live board games. You're welcome. She loves it. And she's she, I have a bunch of friends that are like single adults that are like. Yeah I'm going to come play board games a year. I was like, great. Come play board games because that's what we're going to be doing. anD we don't know what board game could be anything. You could be stuck playing Harry Potter Clue, just FYI. Not my favorite.

Mandy: 26:31

Y'all have been warned.

Pamela: 26:32

We've been warned. You've been warned. There's a good possibility that whatever the board game is, it will be a Harry Potter Trivial Pursuit. Yeah, but yeah, I think that traditions are really valuable. And I think it's great to just be able to be like, Here's this thing. We're going to, one of our traditions around the holidays is going to be, we're going to, I'm going to get a special puzzle that we're all going to do together. It's going to go on the dining room table where, you know, and we're going to work on this together. Cause that's something that you can, that's something that like 20 years from now, your kids are still going to be like, Mom, did you get a puzzle?

Mandy: 27:03

And it's almost it's funny, you're talking about Marley getting rigid. It's almost like rigid flexible. So we think a lot about flexibility. We're both in aviation. We both have wacky schedules. So we're lucky that our kids are familiar with some flexibility. So for example, we're not celebrating the holidays on the actual holidays. My husband's, very junior within the company. He's not going to be home. So they're cool with celebrating it not on the day. They're cool with, and we very intentionally did not do like a cut down and decorate tree tradition because I don't know if we can do that everywhere. But, could I take a puzzle and a layover when we all try to have time together? Yes, I can. I'm there's a little bit of that in the back of my head where it's like, how portable is this tradition? You know what I mean? Yeah. Because, it's gonna, this is, military families, who knows where you're celebrating holidays this year? You'd think you got a three year, stint there and then, oh, two days before Christmas? Guess what? You're now international. It's And I think that kind of goes back to a lot of other generations never had to deal with that. There was always just, you were home. The town you lived in was probably where you lived in and raised a family, and not a lot of people went elsewhere for work. And then, the next generation, there was a lot more moving for employment. There was a lot more that was how you make your living. And so that was new, that whole flying home, traveling home, that became a thing that was new for that next generation. And now I think like another hallmark of this generation is we don't even celebrate it on the same days. We don't even, do the same traditions. Like we just, like you said, we just dumped it out on its head. We redoing it. And. We have the toolkit and the vocabulary to navigate that, whereas other generations might not, and that

Pamela: 28:54

to me is conflict. Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice opportunity. And I love the idea of we are a family that needs things to be portable because of Our lifestyle because of our our employment because of our whatever other things. And so when I start to think about family traditions, I start to think about the portability of those family traditions. Can I throw it in a bag and take it with me? Can we still have this ability to, does it have to be, does something have to be a Christmas day or a specific holiday day thing? Or can it be something that you have the ability to do whatever works for your family when you're able to come together. And I remember that too, just like being the youngest, having all my siblings, having kids. If we try to get together as a family for the holidays, when I was a kid, we got together on Christmas. And when I was a kid, we went, we alternated with my aunt and uncle and either they came to our house or we went to their house and it was a two hour drive. So you're like, you get up, do the morning thing and get in the car and you drive, to the New Hampshire border, grew up on the Cape. To do Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner, and it was both holidays. And it would be like, we did Thanksgiving here and Christmas here. And then next year it swaps. And what's wild in all of this is this was like the way that it is. And then somehow we very easily adapted to whenever we could get together is fine. buT There are a couple, there are a handful of things that are like important traditions, um, from a family perspective. And we like to come together and like hang out together. And unfortunately in my family, it's become let's all go drinking together. Not me. So I don't go. That's fine. But it doesn't matter what the tradition is. It doesn't matter how you come together. Some people come together around food. Some people come together around a puzzle. Some people come together around going in, I see, I have a couple of friends that are like professional photographers that do family photography stuff. So i've seen a lot of their like the all the generations of the family are at the tree farm cutting down their tree Together and that's like I have people I grew up with that. That's what they do. That's like the family tradition That's how they all come together and i'll go get their trees together. It doesn't matter what it is Like I think at the end of the day, when you're talking about coming together and having more experiences and allowing relationships to be the driving force, it doesn't matter what it is. And if you can share with the people in your world Hey, I would like to do more of this. The one thing that I find is that when we can help people in our sphere that are resistant to, not buying all the things, if we can share our, why it goes. It's a lot farther than than just being like, this is my role. And when I talk about the why I'm talking about here's the things I'm trying to teach my kids. Here's the things that are, I'm trying to help my kids value. We sometimes have this this is because this is what I want, because this is what's important to me. Because it's you talked about going minimalist as a way of calming the inner, right? Like it's, it gets really overwhelming for me. Oftentimes people in our lives go, yeah, get over it. Yep. But when we say, what's really important to me is to teach my kid to value a relationships over things. And it's great to have things. There's nothing wrong with having things. There's no judgment around having things. Things are fine. I'm just really invested in my kids having amazing, having relationships first. So if we put things in order of which comes first, what comes first is relationships and relationships means connection and connection is formed when we experience oxytocin and we experience oxytocin when we spend time together, not when we get gifts, give us dopamine connection, gives us oxytocin. And if you've ever. Dated someone new, I'm pretty sure everybody here listening has dated someone new in their life, at least once. That experience of Oh, they're calling me or I'm seeing them and you get like the butterflies and it's exciting and you just can't wait to see them. And then you're like married to this person. And this is what happens by the way, in our this is a whole nother. A whole nother conversation, but like when we shift from dopamine to oxytocin, we have a tendency to be like, Oh, the relationship is not exciting anymore. And now we should break up. But oxytocin is actually the neurochemical that counters all the stuff like the fight or flight response, all our stress responses. It is oxytocin that heals. And that is that experience when you like snuggle with your kids, that is that experience when you have like somebody has a puppy and you're like, Oh, that's such a sweet puppy. Like that's my kid. She loves puppies. So she's Oh, like Jody, my friend Jody has a new puppy and Jody cuts Marley's hair. We went over there and she was like, all I want to know is Marley. All I want to know is the puppy going to be there. She's like dogs over people. Yeah. She's like dogs over people. A hundred percent. But those neurochemicals, when you hug someone like an actual full hug and you're just like, you can take a breath and you sigh and you just feel your body settle. That's oxytocin. And that's what happens when you sit around and you build a puzzle together. That's what happens when you cut down a Christmas tree together. That's what happens when you bake cookies with grandma. That's what happens when you have this ability or this opportunity to just be together doing mundane, everyday things, right? Thank you so much for joining us and tune in for our next episode, where we dive more into this idea of neurochemicals and creating the holiday season that you want for you and your family. That episode will be out in a few short days. So keep an eye out and I look forward to hearing from you guys soon. Take care.